Lord Caitanya and Chand Kazi

My dear Nimāi Paṇḍita, what You have said is all true. Our scriptures have developed only recently, and they are certainly not logical and philosophical.
(CC Ādi 17.169)

The Kazi said, “To as many descendants as take birth in my dynasty in the future, I give this grave admonition: No one should check the saṅkīrtana movement.”
(CC Ādi 17.222)

There was a discussion between Lord Caitanya and Chand Kazi, the Muhammadan magistrate. That story perhaps you know, that He started civil disobedience movement. And the brahmins of Navadvīpa, they complained to the Muhammadan man . . . at that time, Bengal was being governed by the Pathans, Muhammadans, and so there was Muhammadan magistrate called Kazi Saheb.
So the brahmins, they lodged complaint to the Kazi Saheb that, “This boy, Nimāi Paṇḍita, He has started one movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa, and people are being enthused, excited, to chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and He is making propaganda that “Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, you’ll get all perfection.”
So the brahmins thought that “If this boy makes propaganda and popularize this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, then, oh, what about ourself?” They were priestly class. “Then how we will live?” So they lodged complaint to the Chand Kazi that, “He’s doing something against our Vedic ritual. It is not Hindu religion. And . . .” Of course, he was Muhammadan magistrate, but after all, he was meant for giving justice to the people. So when big brāhmiṇs complained, he took action and he sent some constables to warn the followers of Lord Caitanya that “You are disturbing. You are disturbing, this Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting. You cannot do this. There is complaint.”
So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was informed that, “The Chand Kazi has warned us not to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. What shall we do?” Caitanya Mahāprabhu said: “Don’t care. Go on chanting. Go on chanting.” So then, when the magistrate saw that they have not stopped, then he sent some constables and government police force, who broke their mṛdaṅgas and dispersed the crowd. So this information was given to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and He said, “All right, then we shall,” I mean to say, “issue this civil disobedience.”
So He called for many thousands of people. He was very popular. This incidence shows that even He was at that time sixteen-years-old boy, He was so learned, Nimāi Paṇḍita, that He defeated a great scholar, and at the same time, He was very popular, because by His simple calling, many hundred thousands of people gathered with mṛdaṅgas, and they began kīrtana in the street and went to the house of that Kazi.
So at that time Kazi thought that, “This is a mass movement. So my order will not be . . . there will be some disturbance.” So he came to his senses. Then he wanted to make some compromise with Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And first of all there was some discussion, because he was also very learned scholar, Chand Kazi, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was also very learned scholar.
So first of all he compromised, Chand Kazi, “Nimāi, You are a boy, and in our village relationship You are just my nephew because Your grandfather, Your mother’s father, I call him ‘Cācā.’ ” Cācā means uncle. “So, in that sense, Your mother is my sister. So You are my nephew. Why You are so angry upon Your uncle?” So He said: “Yes, My dear uncle, I have come My uncle’s house to be received very nicely, but you went upstairs. Why? I am very glad that you have come down.” In this way, the things were . . .
Then He first of all asked Chand Kazi, “Yes, My dear uncle . . .” He was maternal uncle, māmu . . . māmu or māmā. Māmā means maternal uncle. “My dear māmā, Uncle, what is your religion, that you eat your father and mother?” That was His challenge, first. Well, What sort of religion you have got?” He said: “What You say? We eat our father . . .?” “Yes, because you eat cows. So cow gives you milk. She’s your mother. You drink milk and kill your mother. And the bull, she (he) helps you in agricultural . . . producing grains, just like father gives you grain to eat. So you are killing your father and mother. How is that?”
So Chand Kazi was also very learned scholar. He said: “Well, this cow-killing is also recommended in Your Vedas, because there is cow sacrifice.” So Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied . . . now, we should know it that the animal sacrifice, according to the Vedic scripture, that is not killing. That is explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
He said that, “In the previous time, this cow sacrifice was actually being done. That’s all right. But that was not for killing. That—to give the cow, the old cow or bull, a new life. By the power of mantra, just to give evidence of the Vedic mantras, the brahmins would sacrifice a cow, old cow or old bull, in the fire and give . . . give him, again, new life. That was . . .
“Now, in this age, there is no such powerful brahmin who can chant the mantras rightly and give again rejuvenation, another new life. It is not possible. Therefore in the śāstras, these sort of sacrifices are forbidden.”
So there was nice discussion, and the compromise was that, “No more Your saṅkīrtana movement will be checked by my men.”
(690618 – Lecture SB 01.05.14 – New Vrindaban, USA)

The Lord said, “My dear uncle, I have come to your home just to ask you some questions.” “Yes,” the Kazi replied, “You are welcome. Just tell me what is in Your mind.”The Lord said, “You drink cows’ milk; therefore the cow is your mother. And the bull produces grains for your maintenance; therefore he is your father. “Since the bull and cow are your father and mother, how can you kill and eat them? What kind of religious principle is this? On what strength are you so daring that you commit such sinful activities?” The Kazi replied, “As You have Your scriptures called the Vedas and Purāṇas, we have our scripture, known as the holy Koran. “According to the Koran, there are two ways of advancement—through increasing the propensity to enjoy, and through decreasing the propensity to enjoy. On the path of decreasing attachment [nivṛtti-mārga], the killing of animals is prohibited. “On the path of material activities, there is regulation for killing cows. If such killing is done under the guidance of scripture, there is no sin.” As a learned scholar, the Kazi challenged Caitanya Mahāprabhu, “In Your Vedic scriptures there is an injunction for killing a cow. On the strength of this injunction, great sages performed sacrifices involving cow-killing.” Refuting the Kazi’s statement, the Lord immediately replied, “The Vedas clearly enjoin that cows should not be killed. Therefore every Hindu, whoever he may be, avoids indulging in cow-killing. “In the Vedas and Purāṇas there are injunctions declaring that if one can revive a living being, one can kill it for experimental purposes. “Therefore the great sages sometimes killed old cows, and by chanting Vedic hymns they brought them back to life for perfection. “The killing and rejuvenation of such old and invalid cows was not truly killing but an act of great benefit. “Formerly there were powerful brāhmaṇas who could make such experiments using Vedic hymns, but now, because of the Kali-yuga, brāhmaṇas are not so powerful. Therefore the killing of cows and bulls for rejuvenation is forbidden. “‘In this Age of Kali, five acts are forbidden: the offering of a horse in sacrifice, the offering of a cow in sacrifice, the acceptance of the order of sannyāsa, the offering of oblations of flesh to the forefathers, and a man’s begetting children in his brother’s wife.’ “Since you Muslims cannot bring killed cows back to life, you are responsible for killing them. Therefore you are going to hell; there is no way for your deliverance. “Cow-killers are condemned to rot in hellish life for as many thousands of years as there are hairs on the body of the cow. “There are many mistakes and illusions in your scriptures. Their compilers, not knowing the essence of knowledge, gave orders that were against reason and argument.” After hearing these statements by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the Kazi, his arguments stunned, could not put forward any more words. Thus, after due consideration, the Kazi accepted defeat and spoke as follows. “My dear Nimāi Paṇḍita, what You have said is all true. Our scriptures have developed only recently, and they are certainly not logical and philosophical. “I know that our scriptures are full of imagination and mistaken ideas, yet because I am a Muslim I accept them for the sake of my community, despite their insufficient support. “The reasoning and arguments in the scriptures of the meat-eaters are not very sound,” the Kazi concluded. Upon hearing this statement, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu smiled and inquired from him as follows.
(CC Adi 17.152 – 17.171)

“My dear maternal uncle, I wish to ask you another question. Please tell Me the truth. Do not try to cheat Me with tricks. “In your city there is always congregational chanting of the holy name. A tumultuous uproar of music, singing and dancing is always going on. “As a Muslim magistrate, you have the right to oppose the performance of Hindu ceremonies, but now you do not forbid them. I cannot understand the reason why.” The Kazi said, “Everyone calls You Gaurahari. Please let me address You by that name. “Kindly listen, O Gaurahari! If You come to a private place, I shall then explain the reason.” The Lord replied, “All these men are My confidential associates. You may speak frankly. There is no reason to be afraid of them.” The Kazi said, “When I went to the Hindu’s house, broke the drum and forbade the performance of congregational chanting, in my dreams that very night I saw a greatly fearful lion, roaring very loudly, His body like a human being’s and His face like a lion’s. “While I was asleep, the lion jumped on my chest, laughing fiercely and gnashing His teeth. “Placing its nails on my chest, the lion said in a grave voice, ‘I shall immediately bifurcate your chest as you broke the mṛdaṅga drum! “‘You have forbidden the performance of My congregational chanting. Therefore I must destroy you!’ Being very much afraid of Him, I closed my eyes and trembled. “Seeing me so afraid, the lion said, ‘I have defeated you just to teach you a lesson, but I must be merciful to you. On that day you did not create a very great disturbance. Therefore I have excused you and not taken your life. But if you perform such activities again, I shall not be tolerant. At that time I shall kill you, your entire family and all the meat-eaters. After saying this, the lion left, but I was very much afraid of Him. Just see the marks of His nails on my heart! After this description, the Kazi showed his chest. Having heard him and seen the marks, all the people there accepted the wonderful incident. The Kazi continued, “I did not speak to anyone about this incident, but on that very day one of my orderlies came to see me. After coming to me, the orderly said, ‘When I went to stop the congregational chanting, suddenly flames struck my face. My beard was burned, and there were blisters on my cheeks.’ Every orderly who went gave the same description. After seeing this, I was very much afraid. I asked them not to stop the congregational chanting but to go sit down at home.
(CC Adi 17.172 – 17.191)